A prevalent connection between Langston Hughes’ poem “Beale Street Love” and “Wife-Torture in England” is enforcement of the power structure. Cobbe writes that wife beating (or torture) occurred primarily among the poorer class, although it was not invisible in the richer class (Cobbe 58). The subjects in “Beale Street Love” are presumably black Americans, set in a time period when black meant intensely inferior to white. Household violence, in this context, becomes a way to establish some sort of power hierarchy; poor men beat their wives to feel that they’re above someone else.
Whether or not the women accepted this power hierarchy is less clear. Hughes’ poem suggests that the woman being beaten encourages it. This echoes a point brought up in Cobbe’s article, when it states, “The women of Lancashire are awfully fond of bad husbands… women are like dogs, the more you beat them the more they love you” (Cobbe 64). Perhaps women support the same power structure that their husbands brutally try to enforce; it seems that women have desired the more masculine and powerful man throughout history, and still today. “Clorinda” in Hughes poem appears to represent this group of women, which only encourages acceptance of domestic abuse.
On the other hand, it is also clear that women did not have much of an option to fight back. “Clorinda” can be seen as a passive victim; it’s difficult to sympathize with her position when she seems to be encouraging the abuse rather than countering it. However, Cobbe’s article, as well as Domestic Tyranny, shed a different light on this question. Cobbe clearly distinguishes a difference between women who beat their husbands in addition to being beaten, and women who are beaten without physically fighting back. The woman who fights back (it is unsaid who starts the fight) is not as pitiable as the woman who takes it, and therefore less of a victim. Current rationale would argue that both women are equally victimized. In Cobbe’s time, even women who desperately grabbed a weapon in self-defense for their lives were looked at as the aggressor at fault. In this way, fault is always placed upon the woman.
Both Domestic Tyranny and “Wife-Torture in England” give evidence that women who tried to use the law to escape domestic violence were largely unsuccessful. In Cobbe's’= article, domestic violence was the only area where men could bend the law; public opinion rationalized that a man could beat their wife if she deserved it, and they assumed that she did. Once again, fault is always placed on the woman. In Hughes’ poem, “Clorinda” would have still been to blame even if she fought back, perhaps even more so for trying. Essentially any woman short of perfect was looked at as guilty in some way. The tone of Hughes’ poem hints that the speaker disagrees with this reality, yet he depicts is seamlessly.
Cobbe writes that a woman’s words are her weapon, and a man’s weapon is his fist. “Nagging” becomes a crime punishable by violence. Perhaps the line, "Hit me again," in Hughes' poem is simply Clorinda nagging, making her abuse justified. In the society Cobbe lived in, this seems entirely possible. Would fighting back have helped her cause, or worsened it? It seems both scenarios would have resulted in the same amount of bruises, the same blame placed upon her, and the power hierarchy violently established in the same way.
Good discussion of the role power-based hierarchical structures play in family violence.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if the argument about Clorinda's position in that power hierarchy could be made stronger. Does she actually sit there and take the beatings? If Cobbe says a woman's words are her weapon, then could we consider "hit me again" to be Clorinda's way of fighting that power structure? If so, what does this mean?
You place Clorinda's situation within Cobbe's 'world,' and while it's interesting to analyze "Beale Street Love" in Cobbe's context, I also feel like we haven't firmly established what paradigm of domestic violence Hughes is working within. From what the quickest of Google searches has taught me, "Wife Torture" was published in 1878, while "Beale Street Love" was published in 1927. That's a gap of almost fifty years (to say nothing of the geographical/cultural gap between England and Harlem), and I think it would be more enlightening to figure out what remained, changed, or was lost between the Cobbe and Hughes.
ReplyDeleteYour response does a great job of illustrating the parallel of both the woman who desires to defend herself resulting in beating and the woman who is beaten because she is helpless entirely, and the way that their situations both yield the same result. Using Clorinda as a perfect example of the first, if her voice is seen as a literal agitation of her husband to strike her again then she ironically enough lands her in the same abused situation as woman who takes her oppressors beatings in silence. The way you summarized the two types of woman makes me wonder, why not at least try to fight back? Taking into consideration the drastic gender role differences of the time period to the present, I still have to wonder: if the end result is with the man's fist prevailing, why not try to save yourself? It has to be true that at some point in time a wife appealed to her husbands better nature and avoided a beating. If a woman could somehow accomplish this, couldn't she begin a trend in the same manner and ultimately eliminate her domestic violence together? I completely understand that if this suggestion were given to anyone in the time period that our authors are writing from they would laugh in my face, but reading it as a 21st century woman I have to think that "nothing ventured nothing gained" applies.
ReplyDeleteI like this paper. You use your ideas well to support your point. Furthermore, there does not appear to be any distracting/confusing sentences-- at least to me.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I would like to see in your essay is a line or two from Hughes' poem and use them to back up your points.
For example, you say “Clorinda can be seen as a passive victim; it’s difficult to sympathize with her position when she seems to be encouraging the abuse rather than countering it."
Explain what line gives you these claims and why. If you do this, your point will be stronger, as well as your essay.
Rachel,
ReplyDeleteI love that your paper is focused on the notion of power structure, and uses the texts to unpack different stances and viewpoints about your argument. The structure is awesome, but I would perhaps narrow down your readings and choose a passage that you can really analyze to bolster your argument. Great work, thanks for sharing!
-Jess
Your paper does a great job at discussing the power dynamic between the characters in "Beal Street Love" and the issues discussed in "Wife- Torture in England." I agree that a line from the poem would help to strengthen your argument and could solidify readers views on your thoughts. Overall, I think your paper offers an interesting outlook on the topic and you are great at analyzing the works to help prove your point. Good work!
ReplyDeleteI liked your reading of "Beale Street Love" in comparison to "Wife-Torture in England." In class we talked about how the line "Hit me again" was a way for Clorinda to fight back, but I didn't see Clorinda wanting to fight back because she saw love as "a brown man's fist." You however make the argument that when Clorinda says "Hit me again" she is justifying the violence, which I believe to be possible. Maybe it was Hughe's way of explaining why Clorinda's lover beat her, or maybe she knew it would bring more "love." Nonetheless, the evidence you used from Cobbe helps explain this possible reading of "Beale Street Love" and I personally enjoyed it because it helped me understand the poem more.
ReplyDeleteI liked your connections between the two works, but I would like to have seen more specific evidence provided: more exact quotations pulled from both pieces but especially more pulled from the "Beale Street Love." I think your ideas are good and there is definite potential, but seeing your proof for you thoughts would make the piece more compelling.
ReplyDeleteI like how you use Cobbe as a frame for understanding "Beale Street Love." It might be interesting to see how using the poem as a frame for reading the other text.
ReplyDeleteI think you provided a great discussion about the cyclical nature of wife-torture, a system that it seems a woman can't escape. I like the play between the two texts but would encourage you to use quotes and perform a closer reading. I wonder if that could be a more effective strategy for comparing the two texts, with actual instances that exemplify their connections, despite the time gap.
ReplyDeleteI like how you brought race into the debate. We didn't talk much about race in our class discussion on Tuesday so it is nice to read about the connections now.
ReplyDeleteI also like your point that it is unclear whether or not women accept their role in the power hierarchy. We didn't talk about that in class on Tuesday either. I think the women who are fighting back and seeking help are not accepting the power hierarchy. They are trying to break the cycle. Even if in the end the women don't succeed in breaking free, they still made the initial move, the first stand against the hierarchy.
Like others, I really liked the connections you drew here. I agree that a more specific and closer reading of each would strengthen this post. When you say, "whether or not the women accepted this power hierarchy is less clear," you go on to say that Hughes's poem suggests that the woman encourages the beating. This seems like an opportunity to explore this idea in a deeper way. Maybe you could explain what led you to that conclusion.
ReplyDeleteI like your decision to compare these two texts. You do a good job pointing out a lot of the important similarities that they share with each other. Especially interesting to me is the relationship between the two reasons for women to remain in abusive situations: their supposed desire to be abused, and their actual inability to escape it. I do think, though, that there are some important differences that you could take into account. It is crucial to remember that these two texts were written about completely different settings (year and place). This fact does make the similarities more interesting, but it also makes differences inevitable. For example, I'm not sure that Clorinda has the same powerlessness to remove herself from the abuse that 19th century women had. I'm thinking about the Bessie Smith song we heard on Tuesday: I see a subtle implication in that song (written a couple years before the Hughes poem) that she could get out if she wanted to, when she says "People say I'm a fool" (for staying with her heartless, cruel man).
ReplyDeleteI think that you have written a very strong essay. You've done well with "Beale Street Love" and "Wife Torture in England" and how the two work with/against one another. I was very intrigued by the idea of Clorinda's "nagging" voice. I think that if there was a bit more analysis of why the women in each piece "desire" their abuse then your essay would be rounded into a more complete argument.
ReplyDeleteThis topic really came out to me because you mentioned a different side of the story. You focused on the women as the victim, but also as the one who wants a man who is powerful. This is something to look into further later in the course. I did think your first paragraph did not set up what you said throughout the rest of the essay, so just make sure that you mention your main argument there. You have written this piece very well and have brought a different side of the story to life.
ReplyDeleteI think you have a very detailed argument set up to look at power hierarchy within abusive relationships that works well for your argument. I would be hesitant to describe Clorinda’s position as passive. If words are women’s power then might not Clorinda’s “hit me again” be read as a defiant stance rather than submission?
ReplyDeleteI really like how your essay played out. There were interesting points throughout. I also like your statement about Clorinda nagging and making her abuse justified by saying "hit me again," very interesting way to look at it. Because I feel that she knows what is going on is wrong but she loves this man and wants to feel that she is controlling the situation and not him. So she justifies it by telling him what to do and not him deciding.
ReplyDeleteI did have to look back to the your first paragraph after I read the essay because I was unclear if your first paragraph properly set up your argument. All you would need to do is make a clear thesis statement. Other than that great essay!
Over all, I enjoyed reading your essay, but I especially enjoyed the beginning paragraph pointing out socioeconomic factors involved in domestic violence. As far as I know, no other posts were made this week focusing on the relationship between class and violence. It would be interesting to connect hints from Cobbe's essay and Hughe's poem that demonstrate the role of socioeconomic standing in a violent relationship.
ReplyDeleteI think this is a very well articulated, and interesting essay. I don't think that the idea in your first paragraph-about poor men beating their wives to feel that they are above someone else- carries throughout. However, I enjoyed your discussion about women's weapons (words) versus men's weapons (violence). Perhaps this could be expanded on.
ReplyDeleteThis is my favorite so far because it actually made me think and it was an original thought compared to the rest of the posts so far. I think you started off strong but then toward the end it seems that you struggled to get your point across and perhaps you could have written a bit stronger toward the end. Overall, I enjoyed reading it and you had good ideas. :)
ReplyDeleteI love how you used Clorinda as an example for both the passive and the aggressive examples of women. I think what you did by showing she could either be encouraging the abuse or just accepting it rather than fighting it was very interesting, because in class it seemed like there was a polarity there; people thought one way or another. It was refreshing to see you take both sides in your post.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that Clorinda was asking for her abuse, but struggling for the power that seems to be unreachable in the relationship. It would have been interesting to see you explore this power struggle a bit more between the woman and the man in the relationship. You bring up some good points about different laws justifying abuse in Cobbe's article. I believe that looking at the societal ramifications of class and power and how Clorinda's line challenges that would be a great starting point for an interesting analysis.
ReplyDeleteAt one point you say that, "essentially any woman short of perfect was guilty in some way". My question is, what would be your definition of perfect? Is perfection in the insitution of marriage for women during this time attainable? If a woman did reach a state of perfection as a wife, do you think she still would have been abused?
ReplyDeleteI really like your reading. I think you offer an interesting prospective of how you feel about Clorinda. With that said, I would suggest a bit more explanation on how you came to that point. I think you offer some, but the idea is not fully developed. However, I think you provide a good back and forth between evidence and analysis. I also agree that you should refine your thesis to make it a bit more agreeable with the rest of your paper.
ReplyDeleteI like the interaction of all the texts in your discussion. It helps relate all the ideas in the readings to the central theme of a power hierarchy in domestic violence. I think the only other idea that I would consider about Clorinda is that maybe she also says hit me again to feel like she is not as low on the power hierarchy. If she tells him what to do, it gives her the feeling of having the upper hand--even though her face is the one getting smashed.
ReplyDeleteI liked the view that these individuals lacking power find their only source of power through their violent actions within their households which poses a great contrast to women's words being what ultimately hurts them. I think ask Clorinda tells him to hit her again it may be a parallel to the woman vocalizing the abuse to the public... no matter what she says the response will be a beating so it is as if she is asking for it directly.
ReplyDeleteI think a further exploration in woman and voice would be quite interesting.